Name: Is it true that “Claude Code just killed BDRs”?
Uploaded: 2026-04-08T16:16:06.572Z
Duration: 57 min 4 s
Description: Is it true that “Claude Code just killed BDRs”?

Transcript for "Is it true that “Claude Code just killed BDRs”?": And let me put the backstage off again. I think we are live. I think it just started. We're waiting. for people to connect. Yeah. Nice. I think people see us, and we're just left stage. Come back right. Nice. I see people connecting. We are just on time. We are, like, 100 people now attending this this event. We are waiting for a bit more, like, maybe, like, one or two minutes, and then we start. Maybe people joining. Yes. I see people, like, from everywhere. Keep on keep on telling us, like, where you come from so I can say good morning, good afternoon. I don't know. From France, good afternoon. But, like, maybe if you come from Brazil, it might change. Brazil. To meet in Paris. Netherlands, India. UK. Remy, you're you're in France. Right? I am here. South Of France. Philippines, Mexico, South Africa. Kabul again is the nice. That's cool. Okay. 120, Toronto. people. Nice. Toronto, Armen, you can you can go and knock at Roy's door if you want to. I think so. Mhmm. I'm in Miami a moon. now. Oh, yeah. Miami. Yeah. I saw it on. Cool. Okay. I think we can we can start, and then people will just join us slowly. So let's start. We good, Roy? All good? Perfect. So hello, everyone. I'm genuinely happy to to welcome you here, all of you. Before we dive in, I wanted to tell you why Roy is here. Two months ago, I have to tell you I didn't know him. I didn't know Roy. We're two complete strangers. We didn't know each other at all. And now we follow each other as on Strava as I as I just told you, to tell you how close he got. I basically called Otrich in, and I didn't reach out because he had 35 k followers on LinkedIn. I think it's 35 whatever number of followers. Was Forbes 30 on the 30 or not even because he represented his country as Olympic athlete before jumping the video awards. That's the Olympic parts I realized later. I reached out because Roy had convictions, about the BDO role, and I love convictions, even if I'm not obliged to agree with all of them. I do not love all convictions. I love conviction as a ground in real experience. Meaning what? Meaning that I would rather have Roy here with us available to you to discuss one of the most burning topic out there to answer real life question than simply my my cloud or my chat, GPT. And I think you pretty much agree with me. If I if I check number of attendees, we are one of 60 people joining. To answer this question, is it true that cloud call just killed BDRs, or isn't it? I don't know. The question will be will be yours, Roy. So let's see. The session will be, between forty five to fifty five minutes. We will try not to go above one hour. We cannot. We'll be limited by the the goal cast, and it must be interactive. So let's see how interactive it can get. Asking you a question, just launching your first poll. I just said that Roy was an Olympic athlete before going into the video awards. I open a poll to you. Share my screen. Which parts do you think he competed in? Windsurfing, Pentathlon, or judo? I open the poll. I share the poll, and I let you vote on this if you can. Windsurfing, they say. Pentathlon. Okay. Judo. 20 volts, 13 volts, 22 volts. I think judo is like I think they when I when I show you the picture of Roy, to be honest, like, internally at them, they said, like, okay. He is big. He's probably judoka. I think miss Assurant appreciate me. this. Okay. Windsurfing is 39 votes. Fantastic. It's 16. June, it's 33. I think windsurfing is winning. Roy, do you have an answer for us? Yeah. It is windsurfing. And a lot of the countries here that people are at are really good at windsurfing, actually. So a lot of people should be familiar. Nice. Cool to see them. Yeah. To be back in a in a more serious question, and the the question that everyone is asking right now on on LinkedIn everywhere, do you think AI replaced most BDRs in the next two years? I had, like, four options for you, and I opened the poll as well, before asking the questions to Roy. Oops. Sharing the poll. Yes. It's already happening. Partially, it will replace the weak ones. I don't know where the weak ones. Let's see. No. But the wall will change completely. No. The problem was never the BDR. That's who is answering what's, Yeah. and then back to you, options. Esther. Yeah. I tried to put, like the Goldcast asking me options, so I tried to put, like, open options so everyone can vote. And I see, yes, some of you, partially. The week ones, if you have anything on top to say, just just chat with us on the on GoldCast, on the chats. Junior is clearly saying, maybe. Yeah. There's a bit of panic for the junior people coming in the industry. Mhmm. And we'll, like, answer these parts. No. But the world will change completely, 69 votes. And the last one, no. The problem will never be the year. Okay. What do you think, Roy, on this one? Yeah. These are really good options. I actually agree with most of them. It's just in terms of priority, I would say that it partially does. It will replace the junior BDRs or entry level, because the role is getting more complex and there's more noise, and there's things that are accelerated by AI. But I don't think it'll replace it completely. I think at the end of the day, sales is about human connection. So it's the BDRs and the people and the companies that are able to maintain that human connection, and AI can't replace that yet, or to that extent. So that's why I think it's partially. I'll be happy to dive into the yet. when you said, Of, course. you and cannot hey. I cannot reply to the yet, but let's see afterwards. Yeah. I I would just just answer a new question everyone is always asking at the beginning of the webinar. Is it recorded? Can we access the replay? Yes. You can access the replay, but I will, ask you maybe, like, to stick with us. If you want to interact, stick with us. If if you don't, just you you will be able to access the replay afterwards. The agenda will be like this one. As I said, we're, like, forty five to fifty five minutes, together. Four parts. The first one is why most of the program fails. So before we talk AI, we want to talk about what was already broken, first. Second part is, like, what high performing teams do differently? The teams that win, they are not working necessarily harder, than the others. The third part would be, did AI just kill BDRs, the burning question. And the last part, building a modern BDR function. How come, how do we do, how raw would you if you had to start if you had to start everything from scratch? Every part, we will, like, stop. We'll take questions. We'll try to to interact with you as much as possible. You can upvote the questions you want us to answer first. So do not state chat is to answer until you just chat with us. Q and a is really true to ask you questions. Let's go. First part. And first question for you, Roy. We we have seen, like, that's most programs, outbound programs fell, and it's not because of AI. AI is only layered on top of broke already broken programs. Correct. There's a question of volume. There's a question of strategy. There's a question of TAM. The first question will be for you would be walk us through a broken outbound program from day one. What are the patterns that you see every time? Yeah. Definitely. It's a good question. I think now it's easier to break the outbound motion and, because AI accelerates things. Right? It's easy to launch. It's easy to build. It's easy to send messages. All these things, AI and all these tools that we're using today makes it easier to get started. I think the, biggest bottleneck right now that's, hurting, outbound programs is the actual strategy. Right? I don't see too many teams and too many leaders getting together and thinking about the actual strategy. I can. share my screen real quick and show you what I mean by strategy. But, but I think that's, like, where it's it's an important foundation to have before you do any sort of outreach, and it's to really think about the strategy. So, Remy, obviously, one of the things we spoke about, and if you guys can see my screen, I can. is you yeah. how to fit yeah. There we go. It's how to think about strategy and what is strategy. One of the first things, obviously, I run a BDR agency and we work with hundreds of companies. So I've developed that strategy for each company we work with, but it's first, you have to identify your 10. Right? How many people, how many companies you can reach out to. Without that, you don't know your capacity and you don't know, you know, should you do ABM? Should you do a high volume? You don't have these, like, answers. So I think you have to work backwards from your TAM. So that's one of the first things we do is we define our TAM. The next thing we do yeah. Go ahead. I think I think, Roy, something you said during the pre call we had together is, like, if you do not define your time, you can burn it really quickly. You can just, like, go for automation. You can go for something automatic or you shouldn't because, like, the time is limited. You cannot, like, exceed the number of people in it. That that's something you said. Yep. Exactly. I mean, I have some clients that have, like, 20,000 companies they can sell into. Now I know, okay, my strategy could be higher volume. I can try more accounts versus I have some clients that are they only want the top 1,000 companies in the you know? So that differentiates already the strategy. Then you have to start breaking down your 10 into different, here, buying triggers, different campaigns, different segments, and things like that. So I think that's, like, at a high level strategy. Obviously, we can dive deeper in another session, but I think you have to think like that and start breaking it before launching, before doing these things. And and that's, I think where a lot of things break is people just launch usually without, you know, first looking at the strategy together and then working backwards. That's that seems like pretty simple when you say it like like this. I mean, like, just define your time, define the the audience, define who your target. But I think people that just want to go for AI, they want go they want to go for automation. So back the title of the session, you can use AI, but if you use AI on a on a on a small time, you will burn it super fast, and you you won't have anyone to address anymore. So that's also, like, the the topic you want to mention, I think. Back to to what you said. Yeah. No. Exactly. I mean, if you have, like, top of thousand accounts and there's only a couple 100 people, for example, that are really a priority, you really wanna think, do do you wanna use AI, or do you want to start building relationships, you know, more one to one touch, more personal? And that's exactly what you need to be thinking when AI is obviously a distraction and an easy choice, to grab to. So there's a real question about volume and strategy. I also asked you the question during the prep call, like, where do you stop, putting in place your strategy? Where where when do you start executing? You know, when do you start being on the ground, testing your strategy, testing what you have in your mind, becoming too real, like, you know, emails, LinkedIn phone calls, like, what the the the good timing? Yeah. I think once you have your TAM defined, so total adjustable markets I saw somebody put in the comments. So total adjustable mark once you have that and then you segment them into different, campaigns. Right? So different other titles or personas or industries. Once you know your capacity, then you can plan the number of touch points and things like that. I think once you have a good grasp on your market and what's going on and how to separate it, you should start executing. Right? There's a balance between strategizing and executing. So I think that's that kinda middle ground. And then strategy can change and adapt, when you start launching and, and you get a reaction from, from, from people, you can start, you know from the prospect, you can start tweaking the the strategy accordingly. I think you have you have worked with more than 200 SaaS companies. That's not something I said, but I say it now. I have coached also, like, a couple of teams. What I've seen is, like, there there are some sales teams that think they know their time, that think they know their audience. They think they have this first step secured before going to campaigns and that do not. How much do you agree on that? Yeah. I think, obviously, now there's AI and powerful tools, and I think there's, like, tools that are specifically to help you build, your total adjustable market. But, like, I've worked with so many companies that I don't see that as a foundation. So, I hope now that this inspires, like, a lit a little bit of that methodology. Yeah. That's cool. I see question about, like, how do you know this guy is from France because he's talking with his hands? I don't know if I if I asked him for this one. Let's see the question they have. The. recording, TAM will be total addressable market. I think we said it. Any question, guys, you have, do not stay to to to ask, and we'll. come back to you. I will share the slides after, those strategy decks and things like that. You can dive deeper. Obviously, I just went through it, like, the first three. There's, like, a bunch more in there, so you guys can get a copy. So if we if we do sum up on this on this first part, you would say, you would say that there is a question about, like, high volume sequences, compared to to just putting in place a strategy depending on the TAM. So the TAM is the first step. It's it enables people to just prioritize where they want to put the efforts, how much touch point they want to to go for, how many channels they want to leverage, and then you go for the companies themselves. That's the slide that you showed, and you will, like, be able to share with people. And then you can you can think about, okay, how many tools can I layer on top because I have the system in place? I can put the tools in place. I can put the AI in place then to run it a bit more automatically. That that's why I understood. Is it. correct? Correct. Cool. There are really good questions that people are asking. For example, Go for it. types of touch points that are most efficient. Remy, I think we're gonna cover that with the buying signals in a second. Is. there, anything else significant other than the TAM and when starting the campaign? Yes. So we'll talk about the buying triggers and, buying signals in a second. Maybe I have the question about how do you define your exact TAM on search features on automation workflow like Lemniss even if I already have one. Mhmm. To define PIM, it doesn't need to be perfect. Right? You don't need to have a perfect definition. But at a high level, you should know if you have a thousand accounts you can sell to or 10,000 accounts. Right? That's that's the kind of, you know, numbers that that we're looking at. Like, is it a high volume game where you can sell to a lot of people or ABM more focused? I think at a high level, if you start understanding that and then understanding how to segment your audience based on different variables, you'll already start having a good strategy there. I think what we can do is move to. the Yeah. We're huge cloud users. let's let's move, yeah, let's move to the second session, like, because we had question about the the the the intent, binding signals, and stuff. For the one for the people that are joining us, this is the agenda. We just covered the why most of our program fails, and we'll cover, just now the second part, which is, like, what high performing teams do differently. The first question I have for you, Roy, on this one is, you see that top performers, they don't do necessarily more. They don't they don't wake up at five in the morning even if they have a morning. We see they don't wake they'll sleep, like, five hours at night. Sometimes they do fewer things but better. Talking about intent signals and triggers, walk us through one campaign that worked and one that didn't. What was the difference between the two? Yeah. I think a smart BDR or a top performing BDR are things like this. How do I book the most amount of meetings in the least amount of time? Right? How do I find the path of least resistance? How do I book meetings as easy as possible? That's your number one thought should be as a marketer, as a BDR, as a salesperson, CEO, whatever. Like, I am trying to sell to people who are ready to buy or the easiest to convince, and that goes to, to the buying triggers. Right? And, finding buying triggers. I'll share my screen again, and I'll show you a few examples. The first thing I do when I do after I have my total adjustable market and things like that is I start there's always the same buying triggers and intent triggers for most companies. Right? Website visitors is a big one. You guys know Harvey Tubi and some of the other ones. Every company should have a website visitor, like, intent tool. If somebody checks out the website, you reach out to them. That's obviously a warm trigger that you should prioritize. Another big one that's often missed is company followers on social media. Right? We have about four or 5,000 followers on the BizDev Labs company page. I reach out to everybody there and start a conversation. Right? I do that the same with every company, we work with. That's where I start. Right? So there's these fundamental buying triggers and signals that everybody could use. And, that's that's where I prioritize. Closed lost. Right? Closed lost, buying trigger, reach out to them, change jobs, checked out my profile on LinkedIn. I post a lot on LinkedIn. So if somebody in my ICP checks out my profile, I message them, hey. Curious what caught your attention. Right? These are fundamental, like, buying triggers that you can use. I tell my team and I do it myself is every day I wake up in the morning, I look at warm buying triggers and I do that first. And those are the things that are going to move the needle the most. And that's how I prioritize my time. And I try to be more efficient through this, this process. That's very cool. I think we have we always have, like, question about the tool stack that you use. There's one question coming from Bart. I hope I pronounced your your first name well. What tools do you suggest as website visitors monitoring? I want to say Lemnist, but what do you say you? What? Yeah. I've you Lemnless is good too because it connects into, the workflow right away. So there's Lemlist, there's r b two, r b two b. There's, a bunch out there. I think just get started, pick one, and, and they all kind of end up, with the same kind of results there. I think I think it's cool that you mentioned the the closed load of the followers of your of your LinkedIn page because when you start at the BDR, sometimes you are lost into your time, the campaign motion that you can run, and you you don't know where to start. And I think it's it's can it's not pretty easy. Of course, it's not. But you can also, like, go to your CRM just to get the closed loss, reactivate them. Boom. You can go to LinkedIn, see who follows your company, and just, like, work from there. Boom. You can go to your CEO. I have my CEO myself, like, Charles Tenno is posting a lot on on LinkedIn. He has, like, 35 k like few followers on LinkedIn. Every time he has, like, maybe an engagement to, like, 100 to 200. And I I just monitor all of the people that like, react to this to this post, see if it's ICP, if it falls into TAM, and connect with them. And also a way of just being started, starting somewhere, working on buying signals, working on the warmly. We don't know yet if it's, like, still in the buying zone, but it's it's already warm, and we know because it reacts it's active, and we can work from there. So that's that's pretty cool. Yeah. Another thing I would add is if you work for a company that has a bigger brand, there's way more warm buying triggers. You should already know that. For example, if I work with Lendlyst, huge social media presence, huge clientele, huge things like that, years of effort and marketing, there's a lot of warm buying triggers. If you work at a startup with ten, fifteen, 20 employees that just started a smaller brand, right, it's gonna be a little bit harder and you have to be a bit more creative. But that those are things that, you know, that are available to you. You should always try to look for warm triggers first. Yeah. I think we have a a question from Malvaux, and we had a question before. The question from Malvaux is about the call calls. The question before, what about the channels that you use? And that leads me to the question I have I had to ask you. We you run a phone first agency. That that's what you do. The BDR, they are behind the phone. They are calling the prospects. Like, there's, like, multichannels, obviously. What are the channels that you use? What differentiate them? How do you use them? It's just can you can you drive it drive it through like this, please, Ward? Yeah. I spoke to Ben. He's the founder of Nook's, which is, the call automation, you know. And one of the things we spoke about is in the world of AI, being human is what wins now. Right? So everybody's automating LinkedIn. Everybody's automating, emails. Right? So, yeah. Somebody yeah. Nook's is great. So I I want to parse through the noise and show that I'm a real human calling. Right? And that's why we we used to be, like, email and LinkedIn also. I used to push that heavily and actually never offered cold calling as a service. Now we completely transitioned to cold calling because it's the best way to stand out right now. And it's also the best way to, have your, like, ear on the ground and really hear what prospects are saying, really hear their objections, really, you know, start those conversations. So, so that's why that's why we started, with the cold calling. Yeah. That's cool. I think I still have the discussion with my, GTM team, go to market team, of course team. They are telling me you can warm up those calls those calls with a bit of email, with a bit of LinkedIn. But at the end of the day, if you want to be fast in the market, talk to your prospect. You should be behind the call. You should be the human talking to human and trying to make this connection. I know there are some markets where it's a bit a bit more difficult. The response rate is a bit a bit low. But still, like, if you if you get, like, 15 to 25% of people, like, answering the phone, that's that's really cool to be to be discussing. And I see people, like, talking about, like, Claude and Lemnist. We are going we are talking about AI in the third part, so it's coming. Bear with us. Question about the the research before Outreach. So there is people, like, spending a lot of time. I've I've also coached a lot of of sales. They they think they have to research good cheap research before they they cold call anyone or they they outreach anyone. What do you think about this? How much research is good, and where, like, should we stop procrastinating and just taking the phone and and going? Yeah. I think now with Claude, right, talking about AI, that's exactly where AI needs to support you is surfacing though that information and making your life easier in that regard. So, always connecting a buying trigger or sales trigger or reason for reaching out to, the outreach. As long as you have these two together and AI can make it whether you're using Clay or cloud code now, helps you to do that actually much easier. So as long as you have that, you should it should be very minimal research because AI could do a lot of the heavy lifting for you there. We have we have done a playbook with Pigma, with the growth streams. They had, a dashboards, enabling people enabling their salespeople to just know the context of a of a of an account, of a of a prospects before, like, reaching out. That's what's really called perplexity with Nathan Follin was saying the same. So it's really cool to know that AI is is doing the heavy lifting, as you said, just prepping everyone just to for us to stay human and and just doing these actions. That's really. cool. Audience, like, we have just see the the questions we have in the custody sectors. What do you think about cold calling? Does this work? I don't know if you I think you have have a lots of SaaS companies you follow and you work with. Roy, do you have any experience with the consult consultancy sector? Sorry. I think cold calling always works. Whether you're the consultant yourself or you work for a consulting company, it's the best way to hear live feedback and conversations and get instant conversations with your, with your prospects. Right? If people hang up right away or if people say not interested, if then that only tells you the truth faster, which you can then use for email and LinkedIn. Right? If if you're not getting them by phone, then your messaging doesn't resonate, and that translates to bad emails and bad LinkedIn. So that's why we use phones first because that helps feed the strategy overall. I think I've worked myself into the consultancy sector, in a company called MALT, freelancer platform. And I and I also coach some consultancy companies, and they do call calls. They they they have, like, blocks, slots, or they do, like, two times two hours a week, for example, just to have this pipeline generated, and they never stop even if the pipeline is is getting better and the deals are flowing in. So they they do it. I'm not saying it's easy because they they might have, like, a higher target inside the organization. So they might work different angles or different hours. They might call the CTO or the CFO of company, like, between, like, twelve and two or after, like, seven 7PM. That's also, like, a question we we had and and arrangement we we did, but that's working. Question from Rishika. They have a new start up. Product is PLM software. Okay. So what is that we can do other than cold calling as a first step? So if you do not want to start with cold call and, Rashika, I hope I do ask the question in the correct manner. If you had to go for first steps before cold calling, what what would you do, Roy? I would go more in the personal one to one approach. Just you don't need high automation. You know, just 10 DMs a day as the founder or the VP or or whatever, and try to really build those connections because you're looking for, what resonates in the messaging. Right? You don't wanna go and shoot wide and start messaging automation. We see that happening all the time and it doesn't stick. I would try to do smaller, more like feedback one to one to really grasp and understand what pulls people in from an outbound perspective, and then you can start scaling it with automation afterwards. What I can say on the technical parts is also that, when you want to start a sequence, there is a question of bandwidth. There's also this question that you can you have to ask yourself, the technical aspects. So you you might want to start with something personalized, but it might be emails because you can send more emails in a day than LinkedIn, and then you can go for calls. So there's also, like, this technical aspect that you have to to keep in consideration We think about, Yeah. like, starting with tickets. Technical, Rishika, actually, if it's technical and you're technical in nature or you have somebody and your company is very technical, I would work closely with them because if you're talking technical and you're selling to a technical buyer, they can smell sales or no knowledge in the product from a mile away. So you really wanna make sure your messaging is technical in nature. So I would work closely with the CTO or, product person on the messaging there. One thing that we do with a lot of technical companies is, you know, host dinners, host webinars, host, like, round tables, things like that. It's less volume, but these are very smart people getting together. They're and talking about a tech technical topic, and that's one of the things that can help you stand out as a start up. You don't need hundreds of people. You need 10 really good people to come and talk to you. So that's kind of the strategy that we do there. Yeah. Cool. I think we can go on with the third part. This was it. Oh, this was this one. Did AI just kill BDRs? I think we we might answer the the question, the burning question. That's what the the title of this webinar. Question I have for you, Roy, is that I think you're not anti AI. I think you said it before. You use clothes every day. You are, like, exploring also open clothes or a different AI available to you in your sales activities. If you if we talk about clothes, it was part of the title as well, and how you use it in the daily activities. Can you tell us how? Can you walk us through couple of workflows that you that you use? Yeah. Definitely. And just for context, I've been a BDR for six, seven years. I, you you know, I started as a top performing BDR, then I built a BDR agency, and that's all we do for 200 plus companies. So if AI was taking over, I would have started noticing already some change in you know? I think it just accelerates good BDRs, and it just makes it harder, to succeed as a BDR. But there's definitely a lot of things that I use, AI in a day to day that makes me stronger, and more efficient. Right? So I can share my screen. I can show you guys a few examples that I think are really cool. Let me know when you can see it. There we go. I have all my clients. I create a project. Okay? So you start a new project, lend list, for example. Right? I'm creating a special project for my client lend list. It could be for your company, and whatever, whatever it is that you wanna do, and you start adding files over here. Right? Files could be demos that your sales team did. Put some demo transcripts in there. Put the website. Put case studies. Put one pagers. Put anything sales documents, anything you can, files in the project. Right? What that will do is the project here will grab all the information from those files and use that as the knowledge base. Right? So now it's everything is contextualized, to the knowledge that you've had in here. There's a couple of things I use cloud for, right off the bat. One, we use cloud code to check ICP. Right? So I could put in here remove none ICP accounts and prospects. Right? Assuming it had all the files and I put a CSV in there of a thousand accounts and people, cloud code, obviously, we have it automated, but it will remove all the junk, all the nonrelevant cool. ICP. That technique is one of the of the toughest parts when you start the sequence, when you start, like, prospecting. Yeah. It's it's two seconds. I just showed you. Even without automation, you export a CSV from LinkedIn of a thousand people you wanna reach out to. You put in here. You tell it to remove non ICP. It knows your ICP because you fed it information, and it checks their title, their LinkedIn bio, everything like that, and removes. So that'll save you time down the road of calling non ICP accounts. The other thing you can use cloud for is you take all the call recordings. Right? Yeah. We we call thousands of people every week, and I take the call recording transcripts, check all call notes, and find common objections, ways to improve, etcetera. Right? So, yes, I still do live coaching with my team. Yeah. And, you know, but that's, like, once a month it takes a long time. This can be a proactive way for each individual person to go and coach themselves, and do it whenever they need to, whenever they want on a daily basis, weekly basis, etcetera. There's a lot of reporting and insights that you can get from Claude by putting in all those points. You know? So that's love the really powerful way. I love the fact that you say that they can coach themselves. So you open the project for everyone, everyone working on these clients, and then they can coach themselves based on what's, you put as files out there and based on what they did during the calls, during the the the activity they have. Questions for you coming from the chats. They say, like, between code code and cowork, what do you use exactly? I personally I use well, we have a go to market engineer that built our cloud code. So it's on his environment. For you guys, depending on your capabilities and bandwidth, you can either do cloud code yourself as well, or this is just like a simple way, to do it in ten minutes, today. You can do the same probably with Chargebee team Gemini. I do like cloud the most. Cloud is the most powerful tool right now out of the three, specifically for this stuff. Yeah. Alright. So hopefully I helps. put what I do as well is, like, the thing is, like, you can put files into projects, but I also you like, even if on the on the chat parts, I connect MCP with my call with my call recorder with Clap that I use a lot. I also connect my Notion page. So just having the MCP connected to Clot enables me to just run quick chats, have, like, quick info about a call I have to to pass, about, like, meeting I have to to do. This is really powerful, and I can also give him skills. So I just I mean, this is easy as well. Like, you can go for for bigger infrastructure if you if you have time for it. My GTME is doing is doing that. We are working on on code code. On on open cloud, we are we're looking at what might be automated. But for me, at my AE level, at my sales level, I'm super happy to have the MCP, the files, and the skills that I put into cloud that helps me, like, ask all the question I have based on the skills afterwards. Yeah. Erica was asking Cloud Code will automate these steps for you. Yes. There's, like, APIs now between different, tools. Right? So you can connect your data enrichment tool. We use, like, Wizzo, for example. There's Apollo. There's Clay. All these kind of stuff. It could connect into your cloud code, and and it doesn't it it just automates a couple of steps, but you can see it's pretty simple to do it, manually like this as well. Yeah. I think back to the both bottleneck that we that we have, and we said, Roy, a bit before, there's a bottleneck on the right people in the companies, how to find them. Can you drive us through how you unlock that and how and and how you do in order. to find the right people in the right company being UICP? This is a tough question. Let me share my screen, and I will show you a trick that I use. There's a couple of things that there's the traditional filters on Sales Nav that you can do, you know, industry and vertical and title and this and this and that. One of the things that I think is underutilized is keyword search. Right? Is keyword search right here at the top? You'll see it in a second. You see here, keyword search. What that does is obviously it finds keywords in their profile, and it it surfaces intent much better. So I would again, once you have your cloud cloud, environment built in all the projects, right, what are the 10 most common keywords that people that would buy from us, would have on their profile? And this, for example, for this client, it's IT operations, infrastructure, service delivery, help desk, etcetera. Right? So these things, surface intent much more and it's makes it much more easy, to find relevant people beyond just the traditional filters on the left side. The thing is that you save navigator there, so you have you have a pet license, and it's it's super super cool to do it to find, like, the the right data. You have the saved filter on the on the left side, but you can also if you don't have any license, I wish you have one, but if you don't have any, you can also, like, use the Boolean keywords, the Boolean and the keywords on the on LinkedIn itself. So it's it's possible. It's less powerful, but you can use the the keywords and then, like, type a post, and you find the people that are relevant to your post. And. the question about, like, why we should keep them list, this is the the question. Like, everyone is saying, like, we should key all the tools because cloud is coming and QuickBooks doing all the job for us. I think there is there is a the SaaS companies have been built in in order to and for example, for LemnList to warm up your email domain, to be capable of identifying the right contact, enriching data, sequencing, multichannel, WhatsApp, SMS, email, LinkedIn. It's just like the the fact of knowing that Claude is capable of doing this. Okay. Capable is is one thing, but capable to which extent with which quality of execution. This is something I I let, I let you decide on, but this is something that that leave people, with us and and and make the SaaS company the one that's that that will still thrive with AI, implementing AI, but not being replaced all of them by AI because we got clouds, coming away. I think that's that's my point. What do you think about about that, Roy? Yeah. No. I agree. I think that's exactly what you need to be thinking. this a is it the big replacement, or do you think, like, it's just, like, you know, you embed AI into your your SaaS and and if you unlock the data, if you work with MCP, if you're not dumb enough to to just keep your product for itself, if you open the product, if you open the data, and if you use with MCP, close, for example, that's. that's the next powerful generation. That that's what I think, but I don't know. No. For sure. Well, one of the biggest, like, clay agencies that I know on LinkedIn that are very, like, well known are heavy Lemlist users still. So there's a reason they're still using both and always talk about Lemlist. So that's exactly how they're using it. Yeah. So, okay. Questions like the on this on this part as well. You said during the prep call that AI takes you from a to zed, without the steps in between. So you ask for something. You got you get the inputs. You don't see sometimes how much the AI works and which steps you go through in order to get this output. What do you lose now? What will you use now if you don't see these steps, if you don't work. through these steps? So Theo, for example, just mentioned you can use cloud to automate everything from a to z. Right? I can find the prospect in ICP and make sure they're qualified. I can find the buying trigger, and then I can send them a personalized email with the one liner. Hey. I saw on LinkedIn that you're you're a professional windsurfer, and it's very cool. And by the way, do you wanna say, like, you know, and you can tie it beautiful written email. That you can do with AI, and that's what automation is for. But what is missed is the insights and understanding. You know, AI allows you to send messages that look very nice, and I see it on LinkedIn every time. It's like beautifully written emails, but nobody talks about the strategy, the positioning, the messaging. What are competitors doing? How are you differentiating your messaging from competitors? And are you really talking about the things that move the needle in those emails? And I think that AI cannot replace. And AI cannot, help you with those nuances, and that's where I think a lot of my time is spent. I everybody could automate. Me and thousands of others can automate messages and write beautiful emails. So what is the difference? Right? And that's when you have to start thinking about the the more, like, specific stuff. I think it's it's Salesforce. We did a study a couple of months or years ago, saying that salespeople, sales rep, they spend 28% of their time actually doing sales activity. So the 72% of the of their time is spent in internal meetings, meeting meeting prep, whatever, like, an incentive task they had to do it, they had to do. And I think we we are tired as sales rep to do the 72% of of work that we can give now to AI. I'm happy to give to AI. Whatever AI can do, the heavy lifting is capable of, and then be back to selling, be back to, being a human in front of human, trying to connect with people, trying to understand, like, what are the the stakes, the needs, and trying to see if there's, like, an opportunity for us to collaborate. Yes. No. If yes, we work together, they become a client of us. They are happy and they stay with me, ever after. If no, I go on to the next one, and I try to, again, be human, connect with them, understand the stake. So that's I think that's the the 70 so 7228 anyway, 30% goal that anyone should have in mind. So how how can I automate with AI? How can I every do the lifting with AI, the 70% of the task that bring me away from my clients? That's the question I ask myself every day. That's the obsession I. Yep. Ravi, we have. a, a good segue into one of the topics about AISDR. Yeah. Yeah. So let me what do you think about platform like AI is your that that's a good one. Yeah. We had a question about this. AI is your this is a question for you. Back to you, Roy. So I'm saying that AI is your tools, they they cost, like, 1,000 a month or 500 a month, whatever. So you can buy it. You can everyone has access to it. At the end of the day, you and your competitor, you could buy the same tool and be on the market with the same AI, AI tool that they do the outbound for you. What happens? And and on on your, like, from your position, Roy, what do you think could happen? Yeah. So the way of thinking is this, is if if it's AISDR tools are, like, a 2,000 a month, for example, and, obviously, if you if you work at a SaaS company that raised a couple million dollars, it's pretty easy investment to make relatively to hiring a BDR team. That means if every company can use an AISDR, what does that where is the differentiation? You know? Everybody can send the same beautiful customized emails and LinkedIn DMs and all these kind of things. So, sure, you can use AISDR, but you have to really think, okay. But what's going to differentiate our our results versus everyone else? Honestly, if, unless your brand is at the top and you're the top branded company and then you're using a AISDR, chances are you're gonna have a much tougher time. Right? And I rather find a way to be unique and be creative. If it's really easy to get to, if it's really easy to do, there's consequences and challenges that come with it, and I just wanna raise awareness that those things exist. Right? The cool thing is that you have an outbound agency. Right? I think it's, everyone knows it. You work with 200 plus SaaS. I think you have, as a competitor, AI SDR. You do, you know, everyday activity. And the question I ask you is what do you do when they when they bring in this AI SDR topic on your table? How do you react? And you said, and I will say it's a instead of you, you said that's I'm happy for them to try. I'm happy for them to try and to see. It's super new. It sounds interesting. Everyone on LinkedIn is saying, okay. I got 19 meetings in in two in two weeks, thanks to this AI, ZR. Just go and try it. So okay. There's there's there's no point of not trying something that's new and that sounds exciting. But then there's always this question that you you ask yourself, how do I how do I, do not burn my time, fully connect with people, try to differentiate, try to be like some someone special they want to talk with if I am not this big brand that everyone recognize and want to answer to. If I'm Clay, if I'm Salesforce, I can use AIDR. I. don't even know the I don't even know they do because they are, like, so many sales. If I'm on topic, I can use AIDR, but I don't even do it. They have, like, 140 open position. It's everyone on LinkedIn. So so that's that's also what you said. It's like, just test, and it's okay to test. I'm like, I'm happy for everyone to test, like, hey. I see you are. Yeah. For me, I can't I mean, if you're able to generate leads and do it in the cheapest way possible and AISDR works for you, I would do it also. Right? But so if it works, I I would do it all the way, and it's honestly not an expensive test. You can do it for a month or two and and check it out. One of the things. working with so many companies is I know usually outbound works for a month or two or three. It works, and then it dies down because the strategy stops and there's no innovation anymore and things. So the brains and the top performing VDRs and the the human part of what we're doing is what keeps outbound alive for a longer period of time. Yeah. And I think you said it as well. It's like how much you say human when you interact with someone when you are rich. There is always these channels we talk about. There is calls, emails, LinkedIn, the three everyone is looking at. But there is also WhatsApp SMS depending on on how how much you know the person. There is also, like, in person events. There is also gifts, I mean, or postcards or whatever. Like, people you see people coming coming up on LinkedIn and just doing something amazing that makes the other one receiving the gifts or receiving whatever it is feel special, feel, like, considered, Yep. and that's opening doors, creating connection. And that's what I like about Outreach. It's like being creative, and I think we can move to the last wish session, how to build a modern BDR function. But I think creativity is something that differentiate us now in this market where everyone is trying to automate everything from from the the the the rest of the BDRs, kind of. Mhmm. So so last part, just let me share my screen. So we did cover the three first one, programs failing, performing teams, and the AI just keep BDRs. We took some of your questions. The last part is about building a modern BDR function. If you were building the BDR function from scratch, what would you actually do? My first point for you, Roy, is not this one. It's not this question. It's, like, the consideration you have in between junior and experienced BDRs. I think we had someone in the chat saying, Jujuan BDRs are going to die. What's your take on this experience versus junior? Yeah. So this is where the conviction comes in, and it doesn't have to be, like, black and white. You guys can take it as you want, but it's meant to spark a conversation. To me, if I was starting out as a BDR and the way I see the BDR world right now, if I'm an entry level BDR, I would go work at a big brand company at Salesforce, at Clay, for example, at Nook's at this point, companies with big brands. Because if I call you and I'm like, hey. This is Roy from Salesforce. It's a way different conversation than, hey, it's Roy from Vista Labs, a less known company. Right? So if I'm an entry level BDR, I would go for a bigger brand with more warm triggers, with a bigger close lost, more website visit, etcetera. Right? So I would start there, and then I would work my way down into being a top performing BDR at a startup, which less brand, more difficulty, less warm triggers, and so forth. That's how I view it, but I I see the, the BDR role on where Myspace is is top performing BDRs who've done it for years. And I think the BDR role, role is gonna have much longer tenure than what it has at at the moment. And I think I think what you say in the commission you have, and that's why I'll treat you actually, two months ago because you said you posted out there on LinkedIn that you you do believe in experience BDR. You do believe that it's a life lasting role. You don't have to go through BDR to AE. This is not just a role that you jump on. And I think you have the same commission as John Shimuni from eleven Labs. He came on a webinar, and he said that, everyone is prospecting the company. That the like, no matter the authority level and the BDR function is really not just sitting behind a desk. It's it's a senior, position. It's people, like, not coming only from from sales walls. It's people, like, being on the ground, being creative, trying to connect with with with others. Okay. They have big names, but at some point, they also have, like, big big objectives that they need to go for. So they need to do this work, this heavy work, in order to go for the for the targets. They have they need I think it was 20 times their best salary. If they if they earn, like, 100 k, they need to do 2,000,000. So you can say it's easy, but the target is also, like, as as big as the the the wall is supposed to be. Mhmm. Question for you, Roy. Maybe, like, if you were, the question from Erica, if you are, like, in the in a small scrap startup with only one person, if you had to build EBITDA or function, what would you do? Where would you start? We discussed about this a bit before, but what would you say? Yeah. One of the things we're doing now is with our smaller clients is without, a known brand, It's you can, you know, you can hire as many b d r's as you want. It's gonna be very strong uphill battle. You guys already know, like, only a small percentage of the market is ready to buy. There's all these competitors, you know. And so we go back to Remy mentioned it before, to things that are a little bit less scalable. Right? It's dinners, events, in person meetups, coffee, things like that. Outbound is just a methodology of communicating with people. Right? Email, LinkedIn, cold calling. But what you're delivering in the messaging is up to you. Right? So if I message you, Remy, hey. I'm in France. Let's grab coffee. That's also considered outbound, but I'm meeting you one on one. I would do that as a small startup. You're gonna move the needle incrementally more, and it's gonna be easier for you to get into the market. Over time, it's up to the startup to start building their brand and make it easier to sell. Right? So while you're. doing these things, you know, to build your brand as well to make sales easier. But that's one of the ways, Erica, that, I use to, like, stand through the noise and make it easier is find, like, warm conversations, warm, you know, offer them something. You know, dinner or, like, do do a call with them, podcast, like, post with them, things like that. Yeah. I think it it starts from the time that you said a bit before. It's like, where is your audience? We're trying to target. And you you explained just, now, like, the what's, like, what you offer, like the coffee, the dinner, and and and the the conversation, the chat. But the how is is also important. I mean, if you start from the from the crappy start up, like and you don't don't have a big leverage on brand, you can also look at your school, the alumni from your school. You can also look at the people in your network. The second connection, you can also look at your CEO. We we we as known in this previous company, we connected to. All these techniques are techniques to just create the bridges that that that get you started. And then every time you meet someone, you're like, do you know two other like, two more people that's, like, I I can connect with? And from one, you become two, from two, you become four, and so on and so on. I think that's why I I would I would be started, and I would I would, like, try to to use good as much as possible in order to do the heavy lifting, just to validate my CP, everything that Roy said a bit before. And I would try, like, this this multi engagement platform in order to know, okay, just to follow-up on every action I take, that that will be a monitoring tool. Sage engagement per platform will be a monitoring tool on top of just doing volume. That that's what I would do as well. Yeah. I I wanna answer, Ian and Rishika. Okay. So, for Rishika, in terms of events, the answer is I I don't know perfectly. For example, for you specifically, I would test it out. I would go to one event and see what what, if the results are worth it and if you wanna continue investing. So it's worth trying. It's something that we're doing at Best of Labs in my company too. Ian, in regards to the trade shows, so one of the things that we're doing for clients at the moment is that we're like, hey, we're doing a 10 person dinner in San Francisco, May. Would you be interested in attending? Right? We get a list of 20 people that are interested and then they start registering. Then a day, the founder goes to dinner with 10 people in our ICP. That's kind of we're creating our own, you know, dinner event, which is really good. You're in front of 10 people, maybe one or two will become customers, and then you keep that going. You can also create LinkedIn post from it, take pictures with them, use Remi's strategy, ask, hey. Do you know somebody else who would might be interested in the dinner next time? And you keep going from there. That's pretty cool. I think we we slipped into the q and a parts, Roy. I think we're arriving at the end of this this session. It's already, like, fifty minutes in. We have, like, few few more questions coming. We're going to take, like, two or three. There might be, like, one, and I think it's it's pretty interesting. The one, what do good results look like when you do outbound? Do you have any numbers, Roy? And I think, Jan, I might be missing the points, but I think you're asking the question, like, when you start on 100 prospects, how many prospects do you expect to to answer depending on the channels you use? That's probably your question. I hope it. Yeah. Ian, if it's regarding the event, I think if you have 10 attendees in your ICP. that are, like, VPs and above that are coming to a dinner, I think it's a pretty good result. Right? And you can see from those 10 what ended up happening in the funnel. If if, if you're getting pipeline from that, if they're actually interested in product, etcetera, the biggest thing that's not even quantitatively that you can't measure in terms of of, of revenue or lead or whatever is insights. Right? Because as a startup, especially, is you wanna learn how to talk to your prospect and what they care about. And if you are doing it if you're doing outreach on LinkedIn and email and phones, and you don't have that baseline and infrastructure, then it's not going to resonate. So the biggest unlock that you're gonna get from those dinners is the messaging and positioning and and the value props. They can then translate to your outbound. If you get that, everything else is gonna work anyways. So now you're getting both. Right? It's a win win. You both meet 10 people, and you help improve your messaging and positioning. I think you said dinner with same with with call call, with everything every human interaction is a loop effect, the fact of having insights and looping them back into your strategy, Yeah. into your system so you can live above, like, three months. Yeah. It's funny because I see a lot of people. Hey. I booked 30 meetings from AI. I see a lot of people post on LinkedIn about booking meetings, and rarely do people talk about the insights of, you know, of what they're learning from talking to prospects. Chris Walker at Refine Labs, who I'm sure a lot of you know, always talks about how it's important to talk to your customer and to see what they care about and really be deep into those insights, and that feeds everything. So you'll see everything I talk to. It's not even about meetings. It's about the insights that I'm getting from my outreach. Outbound is the most powerful way to get insights. If nobody answers, your messaging doesn't resonate, and they have a competitor that are using or a solution that they think solves the same problem. Right? So no answer is an answer. An answer but an objection, now you're starting to layer what the objections are, and you can learn from that. So I use outbound to navigate my entire company strategy, and the insights is, like, the most powerful thing I can get. And it's really cool that you say it because it's you are a major company, kind of. You do outbound knowledge, navigate your company strategy, but you might be also a small company just starting and navigating your PMF, your product market fit. You need to do the same. You need to outbound. You need to know what are the inside knowledge of pivot if you if you still need it. So it's really interesting for me to to say it. And that's and you answer also a question I didn't ask you, but is how much like, when you when you say LinkedIn, like, 19 meetings booked, zero BDRs, full AI, how much does it say about the ICP quality, about the deal size, about everything that comes behind? You know? That's. also, like, hard sometimes. I think and I've been doing it for years, for six plus years. I've never really posted, like, I booked this amount of meetings for this client or I for example, Johnny just spoke about number of dials, emails, and LinkedIn today, etcetera. I think it's all contextual to the client I work with, to their situation. I can book a 100 meetings for Salesforce, for example, because they're very brand or two meetings for a small startup, but they've never done ABAN before. I cracked the code if I so contextually, it really matters. And I think it's important to look at the strategy and the reasoning of why it worked. Are they explaining why this stood out? You know, how they're doing it different than everyone. Start digging deeper into the details because the numbers doesn't really tell the full story, in my opinion. I think, Roy, we we had a great session. I actually had a great session. I hope people did. We are going to have a maybe a survey. Before the survey on the session, I want to ask you one last poll. What are you living with, this discussion we just had altogether because we we took a lot lot of questions from you. Just opening the poll and oh, close and sharing the poll. So what are you living with? I'm fixing my system before touching accounts. I'm thinking, oh, I have I have BDRs. I'm giving my BDRs better signals and AI tools. Still replacing them with AI? None of the above. Tell us what you're living with in the chats. Five answers. Okay. That's cool. Yeah. Guys, in in general, People, I think every outreach at this point with AI should be connected to a buying trigger or a sales trigger. Even if it's cold, there's still triggers. If it's no trigger at all, that should be, like, a red flag that you should be thinking about. Before, like, so we have, like, 20 votes for, like, I'm fixing the system. We have votes for I'm giving my opinion a bit a bit of signals. Couple of votes for still pressing with AI, and you should try it, definitely. And then people, like, answering the chat. Before we leave, thank you, Roy. It was super nice, for me to to be there. Thank you very much, all of you. Maybe, like, a quick survey on how it how it was, for the people, like, remaining. I just pulled the survey. I launched the survey, and you can you can just answer it whenever you can. Cool. Roy, thank you. Again, fifty five minutes, fifty seven minutes. We were, like, a bit above the the timing, but it was a cool conversation. I loved it. Thank you. Yeah. Remy, you as well. And everybody, like, connect with Remy now, I guess, on LinkedIn. If you have any questions farther that I we didn't get to, DM me. I will answer, and I I cannot send a recording or we can hop in a call, whatever I can do to help. Remy will do the same. So let let's keep it going and connect on, on LinkedIn. Cool. Thank you very much, everyone, and see you. Bye bye. Bye. Stop sharing.